The Future in Focus: AI Tools That Forecast Business Opportunities w/Saar Ben-Attar
Scenario planning with AI helps marketers test plausible futures, expose assumptions, and turn changing market signals into timely experiments instead of annual guesswork.
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Stop Treating Strategy as an Annual Event
The future cannot be predicted with certainty, but businesses still need to make decisions before certainty arrives. That is the purpose of scenario planning. It does not declare one forecast to be right. It asks a more useful question: if this plausible future emerges, would we be ready to thrive in it?
For years, scenario work often took weeks or months and lived beside the normal planning cycle. That pace made sense when markets changed more slowly. Today, customer behavior, technology, regulation, and supply conditions can shift before the next planning meeting. A strategy that only gets tested once a year can become a record of old assumptions.
Build Several Plausible Futures
Good scenarios begin with signals, not predictions. Look beyond the obvious trend and ask what happens when it intersects with another force. A shift in AI adoption, for example, can change more than a company’s internal efficiency. It can influence how customers evaluate offers, how fast they expect service, which channels they trust, and how they make financial decisions.
The point is to make the future concrete enough to discuss. What might the economic, technological, social, and political environment look like? What could accelerate the change, and what could slow it down? What early signs would tell us that this path is becoming more likely?
That exercise gives marketers a stronger seat in strategy because they bring customer knowledge into the room. The market is not just an external condition. It is the changing behavior, needs, and expectations of the people a business serves.
Use AI to Explore, Then Let People Judge
AI can compress scenario work by connecting patterns, comparing historical situations, and helping teams articulate alternative narratives in a live session. A useful custom assistant is not just asked to invent a future. It is guided by a proven process: assess signals, construct scenarios, identify implications, test assumptions, and ask what actions might make the business more resilient.
That structure matters. It gives the model boundaries while still allowing it to surface connections a team may not have considered. One scenario may prompt a historical comparison from a different market or decade. Another may reveal an assumption that was hidden inside a market-sizing model.
The team still needs to evaluate the relevance of every connection. AI can expand the field of view, but it cannot decide which bet aligns with the organization’s capabilities, values, and appetite for risk.
Turn Scenarios Into Experiments
The value of foresight comes after the conversation. Use each scenario to identify a small number of tests: a customer interview, a new offer, a partner conversation, a pilot, or a measurement that would clarify what is happening in the market. Then return with the results and update the scenario.
This creates a continuous strategy cycle: explore, diagnose, test, learn, and adapt. It also makes opportunity sizing more honest. Instead of hiding hundreds of small assumptions inside a spreadsheet, teams can expose them, challenge them, and ask what would need to be true for a market opportunity to grow.
The goal is not to let a model map the future for you. It is to help your team imagine more than one path, see the implications sooner, and make better moves while the opportunity is still forming.
In this episode of the AI-Driven Marketer, Danchez is joined by Saar Ben-Attar, founder of Ascent Growth Partners, to explore the transformative impact of AI in strategic planning and future scenario building. They dive into the origins of Saar's unique approach to leveraging AI for predicting business opportunities and threats, and discuss how these advanced tools are reshaping the way companies foresee and navigate the future. Tune in to discover how AI can enhance your strategic foresight and help your business adapt to rapidly changing market conditions.
Episode Timestamps:
- 00:14 - Introduction to Saar Ben-Attar and the collaboration on a custom GPT for scenario planning.
- 00:23 - Saar discusses the inception of his approach to future scenario planning.
- 02:31 - Exploring the universal need for strategic foresight across different cultures and eras.
- 04:01 - The shift from traditional scenario planning to real-time, AI-enhanced methodologies.
- 06:31 - The importance of strategic planning in marketing and its impact on business operations.
- 08:39 - How AI tools facilitate a continuous and adaptive strategic planning process.
- 13:12 - Discussing the creative aspect of using AI in generating future scenarios.
- 17:18 - When Saar realized AI could significantly expedite the scenario planning process.
- 22:18 - The practical implementation of AI in enhancing existing business methodologies.
- 28:33 - The role of marketing and innovation in business as discussed by Peter Drucker.
- 32:47 - The evolving relationship between AI applications and business strategy.
- 38:33 - How pioneering in AI and thought leadership can influence industry standards.
- 41:57 - Future potential of AI in evaluating and sizing market opportunities.
- 46:50 - Closing thoughts and the future of AI in strategic applications.
[Music]
welcome back to the AI driven marketer
I'm danz and today I'm excited to talk
about how AI can impact your strategic
planning yes so I'm talking to our guest
uh SAR benitar at the founder of ascent
growth Partners where we're
collaborating on this custom GPT we've
been working on SAR welcome to the show
thank you thank you Dan it's great to be
here I know just a few months ago we
were introduced by a mutual friend to
work on this collaborative project where
we've been building this I don't know
this uh scenario planner in a custom GPT
in order to kind of predict the future
for businesses or not predicted but
build build scenarios of the future but
before we dive into the tech and how the
AI Works I'd love to know a little bit
more about where this process even came
from for your consultancy like where did
you start developing in the ability and
the service offering that you have in
order to help clients see different
future scenarios 100% so a little bit of
background on us uh we are a growth and
Innovation consultancy very much
operating in the uh with firms in the
broader ecosystem so so we like to
venture and explore and find the
opportunity in the spaces in which
firms are are trying to venture into or
growing into or identifying
opportunities beyond the current
operations
were're based both in South Africa where
I'm calling you in from as well as in
Singapore and in both markets what we
found both both in Asia Middle East
Africa and even in North America we have
some clients what we do find
irrespective of geography is that the um
the anticipation of the future is
something that has been with us as human
beings since the early start you know
I've some time back I've written a
chapter for for a dear friend and a and
and a fellow a foresight professional um
and and she asked me to write this
chapter about the history of of
foresight how do we go in and and and
and why do we anticipate and what I
found is irrespective of ancient
cultures Middle Ages industrial era now
in in in the post industrial area in the
knowledge economy we still find that the
need for individuals the needs of teams
and organizations to make sense of the
future but knowing that we can't predict
the future is is an important
consideration now it's not one perhaps
to one of our earlier conversations
that's been given a lot of attention and
and and and resources often we find
these are small teams either from a
strategy background or business
transformation background or some from
the outside who have kind of join the
organization in whatever form while
collaborating with the organization in
some form because there's a business
challenge that the organization is
struggling to solve and in order to
solve that challenge we've got to peer
into the future not for accuracy not to
know for sure that this is the exact
reality that will happen but rather to
say if our current reality evolves into
this how would we Thrive under this
scenario because it might just be
possible it's a plausible scenario some
of the scenario are even earing similar
to what our current reality is but with
a twist with with a refinement with new
and and and and additional drivers that
come into the mix um and and therefore
our ability to respond and to remain
resilient and ultimately to thrive in
those scenarios is absolutely absolutely
critical and and that's kind of been the
context for us the one big question that
we couldn't solve for until we got
involved specifically with AI
Technologies is how do we do this in
real time in in a nice imaginary world
or in the world preco to a large extent
in many Industries one could develop
scenarios one could develop contingency
plans um in your own time in parallel to
how the business operates we were
working within quite clearly laid out
parameters uh the business cycle the
strategic planning process
and what could keep to those and said
well that's an interesting point why
don't we keep it to the next cycle why
don't we look at it the next when we
look at the or refine or update our
strategic plan in today's reality
postco and and and generally when we
look at the extent to which the
environment is changing every industry
we look at even some of the of the most
traditional and and established
Industries out there primary energy
infrastructure um you know basic
Services wherever you touch you don't
have to you can Venture Way Beyond Tech
we found that the ability to develop
these scenarios the ability to peer into
the future and say is my business plan
still relevant do I still Thrive if that
happens because I might be seeing the
early signs of it already what happens
if it keeps growing into that are we
still sound is our business plan still
sound or do we need to make changes
today to be ready for that kind of a
future and similarly organizations would
ask us the question well what happens if
we venture into this new opportunity
area what what does the future hold in
that space it evolves quickly um and
therefore could we make sense of it and
and the answer was only if it's done in
real time only if we could do it in a
matter of
hours or or or a number of sessions
rather than well I need weeks or months
at a time which is the old model by
which we used to do scenarios so the
shift from parallel a a slow Progressive
development of scenarios into multiple
realtime scenario development was the
real paradigm shift for us and that's
where the conversations with clients
with business partners became very
focused around could we use this to
solve this problem because that
particular problem is hitting us now in
our business plan it's not being
realized we're not get to the hang of it
and we need to do it
differently while strategic planning is
one of those larger things that is
usually handled in the C Suite because
it impacts every area of the business I
find as a marketer I I that I'm pulled
into those meetings often if I'm working
within a a leadership team just because
marketers you know I mean Market's in
the name it's like the more I can pay
attention to the market and predict
where the Market's going to go the
better I can lead the company because
revenue is one of the biggest things a
compy company cares about and operates
around right so I know it's a topic that
I've it's been kind of near and dear to
my heart because marketers kind of get
rewarded for being able to better
predict where the Market's going to go
and adjust accordingly because marketing
is a little bit more long range Focus
than something like
sales um so when you were showing me
your plan I've just been learning a ton
from even your process and even how to
better see the future by taking current
trends and then even pitting two Trends
together to see what possible scenarios
we might end up if uh a particular two
different Trends let's say like the rise
of AI you know ex goes fast or slows
down or if something like hits another
Trend that might be as kind of unrelated
maybe like the the ongoing conflict in
the Middle East you know picking up or
going down and what for scenarios we
might run into that it's it actually
paints a better picture of what could be
so that you can find the hidden
opportunities and possible threats in
the different scenarios um something
else you said about making the AI tool
more relevant is this the speed that we
need to be doing strategic planning now
I've heard it said that like what we
were doing for annual strategic planning
now needs to be done at a quarterly
level and quarterly level down to the
monthly level because it's just moving
too fast but I can imagine after
learning your process for doing that I'm
like yeah that would that'd be
problematic at the quarterly level
Because by the time it was done you'd be
spending the whole quarter planning and
then as soon as it was done you'd be
replanning again well you know Dan it's
such such a good point ultimately what
we strive for is
continuous a strategy because strategy
is really a cycle that we could ideally
we should move very quickly from
exploring diagnosing assessing
developing solution and testing them in
the market very quickly so it's a
continuous process that's a live process
but in order to do that you need the
right tools and that's where this kind
of of adaptive and and and continuous
process really comes from and but I just
want go back to something that you've
said and and why this conversation is so
important for marketers and that is that
those trends that we spoke about those
those signals out there in the market
are not only affecting your own
organization yes we could have a
conversation about how the conflict in
the Middle East and whether it expands
into a fully Regional war or even have
broader
consequences a could be impacting your
business that's the one conversation but
how about the conversation about how is
it affecting your customers how is it
affecting the end users of your
products and and that's where really
interesting conversations take place it
doesn't just affect the the obvious
things that you might think about such
as the propensity to buy for example
based on the change in in in price of
fuel or or the availability of products
based on what supply chain changes take
place it affects the propensity to pay
the propensity to take on debt H the
propensity to share with others uh your
purchase and and to learn together with
others in communities based on the level
of trust that you have all of these
seemingly unrelated
phenomena actually have an impact and
that's where scenarios can get really
really
interesting and that's where I think the
power of this for Market is becomes real
and very tangible because if you can
bring that
outside evolving view of the market not
just based on past Trends what is
economic cycle like what will interest
rates do etc etc um how will a consumer
appetite evolve based on known Trends
but if you introduce some of those new
trends if you introduce things that are
not all known knowns into a scenario you
can play into scenarios that are very
different one of our conversations for
example then we spoke about the
propensity of the growth in in buy now
Pat Solutions it's a great example in a
consumer space of exactly what's
happening what's really affecting the
the buy now P phenomena is not just what
we know which is it's particularly used
by Millennials it's it's it's the almost
the the reaction to over
indebtedness and and in many cases the
insufficient Clarity of reg of the
regulatory landscape and it evolving
only recently to adapt it's the new
things for example one of the key trends
affecting that particular Market
opportunity and I'm very conscious that
particular segment is growing in double
digits in many countries around the
world is the fact that um the propensity
of consumers to use or adopt these kinds
of solutions alternative Lending
Solutions in fact are very much
predicated on the use of AI Technologies
on the ability of AI to automate the
process so the decisions around credit
provision around which consumers get
offered what is no longer a human
decision and and and and there's a whole
plethora of factors that affect that now
when you start to have that conversation
what will the adoption of generative AI
for example look like two years three
years from now how would it affect the
way that you as a marketer interact with
your end users or by the way in the
context of this particular product
that's when things get really really
interesting and if you're able to test
that in live format if you able to test
that even in on a panel involving actual
customers and trade Partners that's when
it gets very interesting and we saw TR a
tremendous speed the kind of progress
that one could make the old Paradigm
start to break and you start to
introduce some new ones into the mix and
and and are able to test them in in real
time what I love about your scenario
Builder and this was the process that
you had built prior for prior to it
building or using AI in order to
accelerate the process but it really is
painting a picture of the future it's
not like it's using a lot of
quantitative analysis though it is
analyzing like the scenarios and
thinking through like what the
implications would be but it's actually
a creative process that it's running
through in order to paint a picture of
what the future might look like if these
two scenar or Trends continue running
strong what then does it look like in
the future in in this particular economy
and some of the things that you have on
here is like like what does it look like
economically what does it look like
technologically socially politically
work Life Financial Services it even
goes on to say like how did we get here
like how do we what could accelerate or
slow down this scenario uh what does it
look like two years five years 10 years
down the line all in an attempt to help
paint a picture it's really a
storytelling device and I love how it's
creative and imaginative in a good way
and helping you get outside of your head
and what you think the like scenario is
into different scenarios that maybe you
hadn't considered and were maybe blind
to because you might be so clouded on
what is probably the scenario you think
is going to happen and I just found it
to be a very useful tool even for myself
thinking about where I might be like
five 10 years down to the where with
future scenarios playing out right now
I've been using it even to plan my own
future because it's it's such a helpful
tool and helping me understand uh what
different realities might be then it's
it's it's such a good point and and I'm
glad that you're using it even in your
own personal capacity because that
that's that I know that actually it
sticks that's when I know that it's
actually valuable to the person rather
than just the organization um I mean the
one thing I I think to keep in mind um
is that um and and if I take you kind of
back you know the use of scenario
planning has been around for centuries
but it's been kind of
formalized in particular since just
before World War II and after World War
II we started seeing tremendous up take
of scenario planning and and the whole
science and discipline behind it and and
in the US the ran Corporation was one of
the kind of the
fundamental kind of drivers behind the
use and Adoption of of scenario planning
and later organizations like shell who
took it much more into a private sector
form but if I just kind of stop for a
moment on the r Corporation and the
fundamental role that they've played um
one of the Godfathers of of of scenario
planning kind of put it so nicely and
this is I mean I've got to take you back
to the
1960s where he said very succinctly he
said in scenario planning we got to
imagine the
unimaginable now think of that for a
moment if we have a tool that allows us
to step into a different space so we can
imagine the
unimaginable this is unimaginable
because of a particular context you're
in because of um blind spots that we've
developed within our organizations
because in past years someone decide
that that's a no we don't Venture here
or that's not economically feasible and
what technology and what much more
nuanced understanding of of customers
marketers now are able to tap into is
that it helps to to to have all of these
paradigms tested in some cases replaced
by better paradigms and I think there
the role of the marketer is fundamental
because if you can bring in the
understanding and appreciation for the
data with that creative
slant then I think you you you bring
real competitive Advantage into the
process because ultimately Imagining the
unimaginable is a creative act we could
talk about what AI could do 10 years
from now but I still think that we are
decades away from a machine that will be
able to step in as creatively as us now
does that mean that generative AI cannot
be used no I think it could be pretty
creative but it helps us to become more
creative it helps trigger in us the the
thinking that goes beyond the current
Paradigm that we're locked into and said
what would you do here and that's where
the human being steps in and that's
where I think marketers could play a
tremendous role in getting all of us to
become more creative in this
process when did you realize that AI was
going to be the possible solution in
order to speed up this process
so I guess there's two answers to it I
guess the sneaking suspicion I had was
pretty much the
beginning because I started seeing AI
throwing back to us um perspectives that
as a human being I had to take two or
three steps to get there I had to say
well explain to me how you got to this
point and the good thing about
generative AI is that you can exactly
pose that question and say show me The
Logical steps how did you get to that
scenario how did you get to that
conclusion how did you get to that
narrative um but when it really landed
for me was if you recall as part of our
process we've added a particular step to
it that really crystallized it for me
and that step was what historical
comparative what
historical
situation is indicative of this scenario
of the future and I remember the one
time I was looking at it and we were
actually looking at at the develop vment
of of financial services and and related
digital Solutions in an emerging market
and I remember one of the answers that
the chat the generative AI the custom
GPT came back with was Japan and going
through its debt crisis and the effect
it had on consumers for years to come
and I remember I had to stop myself for
a moment and said how did you get from
country X all the way back to Japan it's
like a 10,000 km geographical difference
in two and a half decades going on three
in fact that leap is more than just a
chance and that's why I realized that
actually the custom GPT in its brute
Computing force was actually developing
and exploring
potentialities well into the future it's
it's it's a it's very similar if if I
take you kind of back you know the
moment when deep thought that computer
program by IBM
beat Gary Kasparov in chess and you
remember there was a moment in in that
game where Gary Kasparov got very
frustrated and later in an interview he
explained what happened he actually
realized that however he how many moves
he thought into the
future the this custom program was
thinking more steps in fact in some
cases 15 or more steps into the future
and that got him at a very human level
very frustrated he suddenly realized
that the computer could do things that
even he as The Grandmaster of Chess
couldn't do that's the moment I had with
this custom GPD that suddenly and and
this is based on on chat GPT 4 we
haven't even seen chat GPT 5 within a
year we're going to have it or less so
even with today's technology suddenly I
realize the kind of
connections that this custom GPT is is
is putting together is well beyond the
obvious is well beyond the anticipated
of what I thought was possible but it
was creating those connections that was
going Way Beyond and that for me is
where creativity steps in that's where
the the custom GPT becomes helpful for
us as professionals to go well let's
play into that scenario what could Japan
teach us about today's consumers in the
market 10,000 kilometers
away now I love the way I someone said
the previous episode to this one I had a
guest on that said that chat GPT and
custom gpts in particular is the Excel
to the AI generation or to the AI world
like Excel became a open an open tool
that you could do lots of things with
plan vacations build
budgets forecast the future like you
could do a lot with Excel that was an
open-ended tool that could be used to
build MVPs and many other tools and
that's what we're seeing with chat GPT
now now with custom gpts we can actually
wrap a model around it which is when
chat GPT becomes very powerful if you
can give it an existing model or
step-by-step process all of the sudden
you're getting AI to honestly act more
human because you're training it to take
not just because you could just ask it
hey pret here's the business build a
scenario that helps me understand the
different impacts different these three
Trends and it would it would be okay but
the fact that you had a proven process
for doing this and how to take baby
steps into building it is what makes
this thing work really well and I think
is the big opportunity with AI currently
is taking proven processes and then
injecting AI where it is capable of
actually filling in the gaps of what
humans used to do but now ai can do it
because it's capable of filling in the
gaps and thinking through like okay if
these are the parameters here's here I
can fill I it can fill in those gaps
which is why I knew when we were talking
the initial stages I'm like this is
possible not even with future Tech with
current Tech it's possible possible to
use and fill in to build out these
scenarios in a way that's actually
useful I've learned a lot from you the
way you interact with it's different
because usually the way I interact with
it is very straightforward because I
help build the steps that it run follows
but you throw curveballs at it all the
time and I'm always like interested to
see you're like throwing in extra
questions into the process and it the
fun thing about AI is it's it's fairly
flexible like in the old code world you
threw curve balls into it man that's
when programs broke but AI it doesn't
always per it doesn't always hit the
ball out of the park but it'll take its
best attempt at dealing with extra data
that you've just given it or a different
direction maybe you're put nudging it
into and try to fill in the Gap still um
and that's where the tool is really
really helpful because you can customize
the parameters even as it's prompting
you with a very specific here give me
this and then I'll give you that kind of
a absolutely conversation you know I
mean the the example of Excel that you
give it such a good one because I
remember when when I kind of first came
across I think it wasn't even Microsoft
Excel it was Lotus Notes and and there
was another product that not even being
used to that I don't think it survived
into the
2000s but if you think of it today's
Exel is not fundamentally different than
the Excel we had in the late 80s early
90s the computer power of course is much
more but pretty much it's the same thing
you got a you know spreadsheet of of
various cells you can put for formulas
in there you can put text you color it
you can format it you got macros that
you can automate some of it but the
fundamental building blocks of the
fundamental use for it is still very
similar that versatility that we first
kind of got it got Unleashed onto Us in
that first generation you speak about is
still available to us today and and that
for me says that you don't have to go
five new generations into the future um
you don't have to kind of I mean I'm
reading Mustafa suliman's book now about
the future of AI the waves of AI that
are coming at us and and in my response
to to the book It's a Wonderful book
he's the head of AI for Microsoft and
it's a great read really worthwhile read
but I would hate for people to come out
of it and think of it as a future shock
on my word we haven't even mastered AI
version one now or version two now we've
got more waves coming and and my answer
to it is think of excel yes there are
far more sophisticated tools that one
could use to digest analyze and use data
and they all have their space but you
still use Exel for good reason there's a
lot that that versatility brings in and
I think that's the power that again
marketers could bring into the use of of
current level custom gpts the fact that
computing power is going to grow by
multiples in the next few years that's
an added that's an added bonus so now I
can throw a 500 page or 300 Page book at
at custom GPT and it would digest it as
quickly as it now digests a 10-page PDF
summary or a 30 page annual report but
the underlying functionality is still
there and that kind of brings me into
the into the some additional benefits of
of the tool as as I found them um and
and I have to be I have to be kind of
acknowledged that um you haven't asked
about my history but I actually started
off in in a marketing
role oh I studied marketing at my
University years and and and and fell in
love with it and and it was one of these
things that I saw immediately the link
between marketing and strategy our
marketers in their understanding of the
market and of customers can bring
insights into strategy that were just it
was in the class it was grasp by by
by you know charted accountants and and
lawyers in those days it suddenly
marketers could bring a flare and a
creativity and new insights into the
realm of strategy so that's kind of
where I started that was kind of my my
my first kind of role and and a few
others and but if I think of it with
that context the kind of benefits that
tools such as custom GPT such as this
bring is not just in in testing our
paradigms and not just getting us to
think differently or or even become as a
secondary benefit second benefit more
creative in the way we step into
scenarios and ask the what if
questions it also gets us to be more
critical it gets us to be more critical
critical of our understanding of
customers of our understanding of
behavior and of at some point saying I
actually don't know the answer to this
but oh boy if someone can get us to
understand this space that would be
wonderful we've just hit the jackpot we
just understood what we didn't know that
we didn't know and that's the realm that
I think marketers could really thrive in
because we deal with a lot of spaces
that are unknowns to the
organization and and I guess a final
benefit of and that kind of relates to
the speed is now marketers can get
involved in the actual commercialization
process it's one thing to sit as the
advisor and saying hey there's a segment
here that's being underserved there's a
behavior of customers that we can
actually respond to really well what are
we doing in this space now with these
kinds of realtime tools markets can get
steeped into the actual
commercialization drive and say what is
that pilot telling us now let's take the
results and take it back to this
generative AI tool and ask a few more
questions um and and for me that has
real power in it now you're in the
engine room of of generating new
revenues in a way that marketers and
certainly in in in my understanding in
my earlier years of of being steeped in
into marketing before strategy that was
one of the things that I really
missed yeah Peter drecker has one of my
favorite quotes on marketing he says
because the purpose of business is to
create a customer the business
Enterprise has two and only two basic
functions marketing and Innovation those
are the two things because we're
creating customers and it's funny I I
got so obsessed with marketing that I
just kept digging a hole deeper and
deeper I found I popped out the other
side and I was in a whole different
world called entrepreneu
because it was all about Discerning
markets and that's where
entrepreneurship starts is Discerning a
market and then capitalizing on it right
um which is what you're talking about in
the capitalization where like if you go
deep enough in marketing this is the
place you end up playing you start
trying to essentially forecast the
future where the Market's going so that
you can bring the most economic value to
a particular Market in order to grow a
profit hopefully the win-win everybody
right and that's the exciting place to
really really play It's kind of looking
at the future and finding out where you
can create win-win scenarios for
everybody
involved
absolutely now that you've had this chat
uh this custom GPT in order to build out
scenarios what are some of the feedback
you've seen as you shown it to
others it's a great question couple of
things immediately come to mind I think
firstly is interest the number of people
that have come to us and said I want to
be in the next webinar I want to learn
more about this I want I want to
understand this better has been amazing
has been absolutely
incredible and and remember our our
community of CEOs and Senior
leaders has grown extensively as a
result of that because of that interest
um that's the first thing that we've
seen the second thing that we've seen is
is that people are much more open in
talking about their generative I
experience or generally they experience
in the past what I found there's almost
this Aura of you know the fear of
missing out so so people would play with
chat GPT as an example I mean there are
many tools out there but they would play
with it almost in their personal
capacity on the side without telling
their colleagues and and and therefore
couldn't really Benchmark how well they
were doing how productive they've been
it was kind of a conversation that you
might have next to the you know to to
the to the to the water cooler or to to
the coffee
machine or to or or or by your next
Starbucks
experience but it wouldn't be one that
you would have openly in organizations
what I found is since we started using
this custom GPT the conversation the
number of people who stepped out and say
hey you know what last quarter I've
actually used something like that but I
wasn't able to achieve this in our
scenario how how do you do this and and
for me that's so wonderful to watch
because now you you're actually finding
there many more practitioners of
artificial intelligence in organizations
we're just not used to calling them that
they're still the marketer the
operations guy you know Etc the finance
executive um and and therefore we kind
of the conversation doesn't take place
openly and that's really changing and
that's very
heartwarming I'm still I'm still even on
my own Journey trying to figure out
because I've taken to Ai and helping
build things like this but a lot of
people have't even some of my tech savvy
friends that were comfortable with
setting up complex automation sequences
and dealing with tech there's something
different about those who gravitate
towards building Ai and I'm not sure if
it's more engineering minded that's how
I feel about it but I don't know how
other people feel about it I think
that's still emerging still we're still
learning what what does it take to even
get AI to do it what do what you need to
do I do find that engine ing makes the
most sense because you have specific
inputs you're trying to get a specific
output and then you're trying to figure
out not how just to prompt but it truly
is prompt engineering trying to figure
out how to ask the right questions in
the right way at the right time in the
right sequence in order to help guide it
through a very human thinking
process but I'm still learning and I I
think that's part of the fun of the
whole thing is that there's still so
many unknowns and we all get to explore
it and kind of exact talk about it
together as we all learn it well maybe I
could just add one more thing to it um
and that's a thing that often as
marketers we don't talk about so I'm
going to step into the world of Finance
remember the word valuations so here's
an example we've been working with a
client some time back and they were
looking to step into a new space they
had to understand the market they had to
understand consumers they had to
understand how they interact and and one
of the things that we found out is that
as this is the space of of the energy
transition and and now people need to
use digital tools and and and they need
to understand how they produce and
consume electricity and this became a
new space for everyone for consumers for
generators for utilities for a lot of
intermediaries in between for tech
companies for digital service providers
for Telos who are providing the
connectivity amongst all these role
players in this ecosystem and as we're
kind of sketching how big this ecosystem
is and how rich it is in potential
Solutions and and and needs that are not
being served as yet the one thing that
came to our to to to our minds is that
in fact the valuation of these new
opportunity spaces is actually much
higher a in in the first few years
especially when the fast followers enter
the
market and and very often we tend to
look at the value of a market much later
its maturity when they when when the
early adopters are in and some of the
even the late adopter are in and you
look at the to size the addressable side
of the market and say that's what the
market is worth and therefore as a
consequence of it this is what our
organization is worth this is the kind
of Premium that investors would be
willing to attach to our organization
what we found is in New Market spaces in
Market spaces that are generally
disrupted by technology like as
happening along the energy transition in
multiple
stages that is actually incorrect what
we found was that a lot of the value
gets generated earlyer on in the process
and therefore by being a fast follower
if you're able to capture onto that even
if we're still at your point still
learning still figuring out what's the
most efficient way of getting there the
ones who were active participants in
that market were willing to realize not
just ultimately the number of users
active users but were able to engage in
m&a activity were able to grab onto
capabilities earlier on and and
commercialize them those were the firms
those were the organizations that
ultimately when you take it over a 10 or
15 year period were the most
valuable um and I think there's a lesson
in that is that almost it doesn't matter
which discipline you start whether
you're an engineer or the corporate
finance person or the m&a in the suit um
or or whatever or the strategist that's
kind of wondering what the next business
model would look like or the marketer
looking at consumer data you all have an
opport opportunity to
participate if you can recognize that
the underlying value is changing because
of what now we're able to do with this
technology and the shifts are
tremendous um if I could just use maybe
just as a last point just one number and
I generally don't like to to quote
McKenzie but I'm going to quote them on
this they had a study recently where
they looked at the they call it the
integrated Network economy they're
looking at these new market spaces where
we now need to understand consumers much
much better in real time and figuring
out the right Network the right
ecosystem to serve them and very often
that takes you beyond your immediate
organization you can't do everything
yourself the value they attach to this
Integrated Network economy is over $80
trillion and they said within the next
two or three decades this is going to
become reality and we already seeing the
signs of this again it goes back to that
point of play early
participate um find your own best
applications for this and be very real
with yourself and your team as to what
business problem you're trying to solve
because the biggest valuation shifts are
happening now in over the next decade
and that's something that even as
marketers not just as finest individuals
or CEOs we need to keep in mind find the
ones who make the maps also make the
rules right exactly exactly they're the
ones who had to cut through the bush and
therefore they got to cut the path the
way they saw fit and that happens in
technology of course but it also happens
in the realm of thought leadership you
were the one who minted the terms then
and and popularized it to the point you
actually LED people with it and like no
this is this is the way that it works or
this is how I've categorize the things
there's other ways to do it but this is
the way I did it you tend to have
written the Playbook on how to do it
which is the one everybody else
references later even if they go off on
their own um and that can happen in a
macro sense like a thought leader across
industry but it can happen in a micro
sense within a company you could be the
first one maybe others have pioneered it
outside and you're just taking their
playbook pioneering it on the inside
within a even a large company and you
are the go-to person on that topic or
for that software or for that new thing
whatever it is everybody will go to you
because you're the one who's led the way
and therefore you get to kind of write
the rules within the organization on
that particular topic whether it's AI or
not that's that's kind of my my learning
so far which is why I'm like well
this that's why it's exciting for me and
why I'm doing this podcast to interview
those who are doing doing good stuff
with AI now and to document a few of my
learnings along the way but I have to
ask you're pretty Forward Thinking on
this I haven't seen a lot of businesses
like really lean into building custom
gpts to really make the most of their
their intellectual Capital their
processes and methodologies now that
we've had this Milestone here of
creating this custom GPT that build
scenarios what are some future things
now that you've had a taste of like what
can happen here what are you thinking
for the future of yourself and for asent
growth Partners no it's great I mean the
one that we already starting to kind of
put the building blocks on and and I
think for me this would be kind of bit
the marriage between the
qualitative um benefits of of generative
Ai and some of the more quantitative
tools and that is if we have now reduced
the the time it took to create scenarios
from couple of weeks to couple of hours
or know well beyond a 10x Factor well
beyond that um could we do the same with
one of the more intricate difficult and
sometimes frustrating activities that
marketers get involved in and that is
finding the opportunity and sizing it
it's one thing to say I can explore into
the future and I can identify an
opportunity but what is that opportunity
worth what is the size of the market not
just what it is now where you have only
cursory information very often what is
it likely to be 5 years from now and the
answer generally today is well it
depends it depends how things spend out
but imagine once you've got the scenario
sketched you then ask the next question
which is I really like this particular
opportunity area I can see us developing
an offering in this space what would be
the market worth of that what would be
the size of the market how do we
quantify that over the next 5 years and
where the major shifts going to take
place because that starts to get
marketers into
the decision making space of Investments
of
upfront you know um Capital allocation
um and then we're starting now to play
with how generative Ai and some other AI
tools that are that are based on on on
you know collecting information from
various databases and and and
conglomerating it together if we bring
those two together I think we'll have
within the next few months a market
sizing tool that again will have that
10x factor that will be able to give
those answers um and again those answers
are for the conversation those are
triggering now marketers to say what
could I do with this if you knew that a
particular segment could be worth that
much say three years from now based on
the scenario you've now sketched and
that's something that's not sitting in
your current business plan I'll bet you
and and and and if you could say I've
just spotted that and I could now trace
the the the the the the five six 7 tfold
increase in
valuation how much is that worth and for
me that gets me excited now we can marry
the quantitative and the
qualitative that would be exciting my it
might be possible is it possible to do
manually already do some does your firm
or other consulting firms have a process
of evaluating the potential size of an
opportunity
so that's just done manually now so so
it's kind of it's it's it's partly
manual so what happens at the moment and
and we certainly do this in in our firm
is you will generally use manually
partly manually the customer's data in
order to infer what that future Market
valuation would be it's it's generally a
cumbersome process it involves a lot of
manual work it is prone to error
and very often what gets lost in the
process particularly at the micro level
are those logical links people will make
assumptions as human beings
unfortunately we are very good at making
assumptions and as a marketer or as a
CEO or any executive you wouldn't have
visibility of those assumptions to the
degree that you think you do you you
have visibility into the macro
assumptions but the minute we get into
the micro layer you actually don't know
what assumptions people are making when
they go well I think this Market is
going to grow by 30 5% based on this
data and what AI helps us to do is helps
us to understand our own creative leaps
even when it comes to something like
Market sizing or opportunity sizing and
that's why I think again machine and and
and humans could play together well and
become more creative as a result so
that's the next for that we're in it
exists now in terms of a process but it
is cumbersome it's prone to error it's
prone to Human bias and I think we can
improve that significantly through this
process yeah I mean if there's a if
there's a proven process for it already
then chances are AI can do it
too because that's at least with the
current Tech that's that's really all
we're doing here is we're mapping AI to
to proven processes exactly and
therefore we can have a reasonable
expectation of it being able to do as
well or close to just as well as what a
human would do in its ability to ration
out the tiny baby steps to to see that
project all the way through Dan it's
it's a great great point we do but I
think we do one more thing with with
including generative AI at this stage
there'll be other forms of AI that will
join us in this process over time but
for now generative Ai and that is that
um we also not just mimic the human
process I think we enhance it because
some of the logical and creative links
that generative ey helps us to or puts
in front of us helps us to challenge the
process itself and that's where we get
to a better process and I think that's a
huge benefit because often we are
unaware of the both the logical and the
commercial gaps in our process how often
do we underestimate
opportunities because of that uh if I
take you obviously to the the most
obvious on the famous ones of you know
IBM in their view of personal Compu
Computing in the early 1980s um write to
very recent ones um I in my book it was
published recently challenges I speak
about the example of of Elon Musk and
how he dismissed only a few years ago
byd as a worthy competitor in in the
battery electric vehicle space and his
rationale for it full of human biases
was very poor design their poor design
is therefore I assume that their ability
to creatively overcome challenges in
things like the density of batteries or
arve at breakthroughs at battery
engineering wouldn't be there they can't
even design a damn car as well as we do
and guess what happened byd did exactly
the opposite and I dedicated an entire
chapter in my book to the byd Tesla
match and it's still an ongoing match
it's still an open one but the kind of
leaps that byd were able to do were
incredible so so so that that's I think
part of the benefit is being able to to
to overcome some of these human
biases yeah being able to challenge the
assumptions or at least make clear what
the assumptions are so that we can
actually evaluate it more clearly makes
a lot of sense because if Elon Musk is
making massive bias problems and he's
he's got a pretty dang good track record
of being able to forecast and predict
the future I mean he wouldn't be as
wealthy as is if he didn't have a pretty
drawn good sense of what's going to be
or what's possible with that I'm just
excited for where AI is going hence I
have the whole show about it but thank
you Sor so much for joining me on this
episode it's been fantastic to learn
from you build something with you and I
look forward to continuing to see where
this thing goes awesome thank you for
having me on your show and thank you for
kind of venturing us into this such a
worthy conversation and I hope it's
valuable for for the many marketers
other there are kind of wondering what
could I do next with generative AI
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