Looking At History to Predict The Future of AI w/Marc Angelos

By Dan Sanchez · Episode published March 8, 2024

I recently had a fascinating conversation with Marc Angelos, a history major turned finance tech veteran who’s spent 30 years selling algorithmic AI software. What struck me most about our discussion wasn’t just his insights on AI, but how he framed…

His perspective? “Nothing’s new under the sun. Everything’s been seen before.”

This got me thinking about how we’re approaching AI in marketing right now. We’re all scrambling to figure out what works, but maybe history already has some answers for us.

The Cycle of Innovation: We’ve Been Here Before

When I asked Marc if AI is just another bubble like the dot-com era, his response was eye-opening:

“The dot-com bubble was people not understanding the technology who just wanted to make quick money. AI went through a small bubble – I’ll call it the NFT bubble with the crypto bros trying to get rich on Instagram. That’s not the case now.”

Unlike the dot-com era where companies often had no business models, today’s AI companies typically have clear use cases and paths to revenue. More importantly, AI dramatically changes the economics of startups:

“These tools allow you to do the same productivity with half the expenses. What used to be a 2-year burn rate is now probably a 7-year burn rate.”

This means we won’t see the same kind of crash – instead, we’ll see consolidation as larger companies acquire the best AI tools and integrate them into comprehensive suites.

The Certainties Amid Uncertainty

When I polled my LinkedIn audience about their feelings toward AI, responses split roughly into thirds: excited, pessimistic, and uncertain. But according to Marc, there are several things we can be certain about:

The get-rich-quick crowd will arrive – We’re already seeing this with AI-generated content flooding platforms like LinkedIn
The best tools will be acquired and integrated – Just like with any technology wave, consolidation will follow innovation
AI will become a feature, not a product – “AI people are selling AI. That’s not the pitch. It’s how you integrate it.”

This mirrors what we’ve seen with previous technological revolutions – from early innovation chaos to eventual standardization and integration into larger platforms.

The Authenticity Paradox

Perhaps the most counterintuitive insight from our conversation was how AI might actually drive us back to basics when it comes to human connection:

“We’re entering an era of EQ over IQ. The smart people are smart, but AI can do a lot of that. What it can’t do is get you all the way. To close that deal, I want to know who you actually are.”

As AI makes it easier to generate content and fake interactions, real human connection becomes more valuable. Marc predicts several important shifts:

In-person meetings will become crucial for building trust
Live video will gain importance as a trust signal
Soft skills will leapfrog technical skills in value
Personal brands will become even more important than company brands

The irony isn’t lost on me – all this advanced technology is driving us back to the most fundamental human need: authentic connection.

The Marketer of the Future

So what does this mean for marketers looking to leverage AI? According to Marc, the skill set is changing:

“The marketer of the future has to have more technology knowledge. Not be a technologist, but be familiar with how these tools can be integrated. They have to be strategic thinkers of workflow building.”

But beyond the technical skills, he sees a blending of traditional marketing and sales roles:

“You now are getting this media front end that you need to have a brand out there whether you’re an individual or a company. The storytelling element becomes… sales talks to the customers. The marketing folks know storytelling. Those two skill sets are starting to come together.”

This blend of technical knowledge, storytelling ability, and relationship-building skills creates a new kind of marketer – one who can use AI to enhance, rather than replace, human connection.

Three Action Steps for Marketers

Marc offered three practical steps marketers should take now:

1. Learn how AI is being applied in your industry

Develop and share opinions about AI applications in your field. You don’t need to be right about everything, but you need to be part of the conversation while it’s still early.

2. Emphasize live engagement

As automated engagement becomes more common, live video and real-time interaction will differentiate you from the AI noise.

3. Prioritize networking

“There’s nowhere to learn other than from people who are doing the same thing you’re doing and making the same mistakes in their own way.”

Conferences, DMs, and collaborations like podcasts are becoming more important, not less, in the AI era.

The Real Question for AI Success

As we wrapped up our conversation, Marc offered what I think is the most important question marketers should be asking about AI:

“How does AI play into your strategy to build relationships? At the end of the day, this is going back to history again – it’s relationship only, period. I’m not buying from you because you have an AI whiz thing in the background. I’m buying from you because I trust you.”

This is the paradox of AI in marketing – the most powerful use cases aren’t about replacing human connection, but enhancing it.

As we navigate this rapidly evolving landscape, I believe the marketers who will thrive aren’t those who use AI to automate everything, but those who use it to free up time for what machines can’t do – build genuine relationships.

If you’re interested in learning more about implementing AI marketing strategies in your business, I’d love to hear how you’re thinking about balancing technology with human connection.

welcome back to the AI microskills podcast I'm Dan Sanchez and today I'm joined by Mark Angelos who and we're about to have a really fun conversation about process AI but even before this conversation started we were talking in the pre-interview about how history is such a good teacher because nothing's new Under the Sun everything's been seen before and just based on that little pre-interview conversation we're having even about a blockchain and crypto and all that stuff going on I'm excited to jump into this conversation and I'm totally changing it up on him so I had to set question list and now I'm like okay well actually let's start with history now that I know that you have a history history background you you you you you said you made it in

so I majored in history from one of the finest engineering universities Lehigh University don't ask and I spent 30 years in Finance on the technology front end selling algorithmic AI software so with all that that said history these are all just new names for the same thing you know like electricity is invented fires invented ai's invented the process is the same people are people but anyway yeah yeah we were talking about how like how you can learn a lot about the crypto Market just by studying the financial markets of like the lady 1800s when it was a totally a pump and dump scheme and markets were going up and down and it was the wild west back then you're kind of seeing that in crypto now and it's just interesting and you mentioned like dude there's nothing nothing new we can

history to look look towards the future which is interesting to me is I literally just recorded in published an episode yesterday about why I did a poem about a poll I did on LinkedIn and I asked people like how do you feel about the future of AI right now do you feel excited do you feel terrified do you feel like it's just hype or do you feel like it's uncertain and it's interesting based on those results I found it about a third were a little bit more than a third we're in the excited group about a third were in the pessimistic group either hype or terrified and then a third were in this uncertain group there are uncertain about how to proceed and I'm like you know there's a lot of uncertainty right now about how this is going to play out

now that I'm talking to you and thinking through like well history repeats itself so is there really that much uncertainty what can we actually know based on what's happened before so I'm old enough to have lived through the.com bubble in the stock market I was working and this this is the same they were in an investment bubble and a business bubble with AI for sure so there's a lot of hype around AI but boil it down a is just a technology that's it it's no different from any other technology in the core sense that it's a tool you use to do things with after that comes all the uncertainty of what do we do with who's gonna do what with it and that's that you can't control that so my point is a I will drive the same what you want to see out of it is what you're going to find right people that

be bad it's going to be bad if that's how they say it the end of the day is how can you use it to improve your business to improve your own personal skills build whatever you're doing that's the goal here not whether or not I don't really care what people think about the thing it is what it is it's what matters how are you going to use it how you deploying the thing it's team producer versus Team consumer is how I like to think of it you're either put on one side of that coin with the other AI will help you or I will hurt you I mean I'm clearly in the excited group otherwise I want to start at a whole podcast about this and gone deep and leaning into it but I will say like since you've lived through the.com bubble I didn't I was in high school at that time I got my career started like during the

recession really that's that's where I'm a millennial that's where I launch my career like many Millennials I did get to see the digital marketing kickoff in the transition from traditional marketing to digital so that's the transition I got to see and got a front row in but going back to the combo I've heard a lot of the hype people that fall into that that pole often compared it to the combo like it's going to crash I think I don't think it will but we're not in the combo was a matter of people really didn't understand the technology and they just want to be quick money AI kind of went through a small bubble of the nft bubble with the crypto Bros trying to get rich on Instagram we remember that two years ago that's not the case now

wholesale institutional investing is driving AI to the moon it's There's real potential with this thing the one caveat is it's a product that enhances things but it's not its own product AI people are selling AI like that's not that's not the pitch it's how you integrate like I say but the.com bubble there was also government monetary policy involved we're not going to be here but AI doesn't have programs supporting it it's just the free market people are making some really cool tools I mean what is released recently with Sarah it's unbelievable so there's real legit potential here I don't think it's a bubble I wouldn't expect to crash and a lot of the.com businesses right like didn't even have

business models write a lot of them were kind of like just happy probably interesting but really kind of like I don't know what's going on here versus most AI companies I see getting funding like there's use cases for them there's at least a hipot like a pretty good hypothesis on how it's going to make money alright I feel like the same BCS that were are giving away a lot of money now are they are a lot of the same ones or at least the ones leading the big Sequoias and stuff for like we're around for the combo and learn that lesson and are now looking for a path of Revenue so here's the irony Dean is the concept of burn rate in the Venture Capital world is you raise a bunch of capital and how fast you're going through it is how long you can last in an AI World these tools allow you to do the same productivity with half the expenses

or less many employees and that means the burn rate gets extended way the heck out you now have what used to be a quote unquote crash because you run out of money when pets.com goes under because they run out of money that's not going to happen with these AI startups when they can run forever a 2-year burn rate is actually now probably a 7-year burn rate know it's much much longer what are you seeing in I want to get to the whole reason why we even schedule this podcast to talk about process but before we get there what do you seeing as certain about AI because of what you've seen in history well for one people going to make the quick they're going to try to make quick money from it we've already seen that already and

going to show up as all the garbage content you're starting to already see in LinkedIn the push button bang it out from the hey Jen avatars with the 11 lab voice that I've got the invitation Mark Angelos out their pitching you when I'm not really me we're already seeing that that's not legit value creation though so what certain there's going to be the grifter approach of how do I make a quick dollar scroll through Instagram you know if you want to make 300000 a day click on this website that type of stuff with certain though is that after the flush happens and it's going to it's going to happen eventually you're going to have companies it won't be a wipeout in terms of the stock market on 99 it's going to be acquisition of smaller companies all these

please check GPT you know based apps that are running off of the back end of opening eyes API they're going to get bored and it's great and you're going to have you know the greatest hits Best of AI tools will be assembled into a Microsoft Office version and frankly probably will be Microsoft that does this co-pilot but my point is you're eventually going to have the very large companies the oracles the IBM's are going to have their own Suite of AI products that will initially be just for internal usage and eventually become productized and for sale that's how it goes hey so you have an initial I mean this is this is how I've seen this play out before you have initial Innovation stage where all the different angles are

and people find out just from sheer numbers like what how how is it useful right right hence the custom GPT thing is interesting to me because that's where people can kind of innovate and try out a bunch of little things without a lot of effort you know so they'll be a million custom gpt's in the open AI Marketplace but most of them almost nearly all of them will fail but you will test out new use cases and they'll prove it and they might become full apps because they've proven to be helpful so 2 points on that damn one is you'll make the market and they're both cool and they do independent things but someone's going to buy them both of them together under their other umbrella and it's the thing that'll happen that's already starting but two is to your point about history this I'm not the first one to say this

Open the Eyes simply recreated the Microsoft I'm sorry the the app store right for Apple so this is it's the same model you're just going to have and then eventually you'll get the networks which we know now is social platforms where there's a couple of competitors clearly Google and Microsoft are in the lead Amazon's up there with anthropic they want to make a run at it with his Glock you're going to have like Coca-Cola Pepsi Dr Pepper 7 up like it's the same thing just happens to be with technology yep so there's expansion there's consolidation the big player is consolidate all it's probably a lot of money to be made if you're one of those smaller apps that gets Consolidated right just like there was last time the little the the mini fortunes are made and that consolidation page when you get the

what's going on with that right there that consolidation phase is who do you integrate with like when you create a cool little app it matters to your partner with next cuz you could be out of business does a business strategy know if someone can outrun you there's a lot you got to be thinking more than just my app is able to take your podcast and shop and it's a bit for you that's great but strategically how do we build that into a long-term business and you will need other components and you need to be looking at around and saying okay who would want to buy this could this potentially be part of a HootSuite or part of a you know I don't know Sprout social you take a look at kind of the model let's say Spotify did this or any of these large content marketing

we've got the email software built into it now and we've got you can have classes it didn't start out that way all the apps in the AI world right now are going to be assembled into things companies really large companies and we're not there yet now we're still innovating plugging Along coming bringing it back to marketing it's funny I got to watch the social media Revolution I've had I remember this like funny video that we're being played in all the board meetings of the social media Revolution it was showing numbers of like if Facebook were a country would be like the fourth largest country in the world and it was trying to show to Boomers like how big the social media

I'm going to be I feel like we're starting to see like there's not a social media Revolution with AI but enough people are talking about it from your Gary V's or Seth Godin and all your major like all the major marketers that I know are talking about like this is bigger than like the biggest thing since electricity kind of a thing so now but nobody's written the playbook for it nobody's I went to go find books for it and they're all like little little books that are like $1 books that you don't really trust and all the other substantial books were written before open AI launched its their already outdated as far as like their approach to AI to some degree for the academic there I'm sure they're still really useful but there's really no play book on how to use AI for marketing right now there's

I'll try to figure it out how long do you think it is before there is like a clear path to how marketers should approach it I'm going to say 2 years and it just to give you a time frame right it's going to be a while here's why I was at the Creator economy Expo I ran the web 3 track which was basically web 3 blockchain is not the same thing as AI but they're similar in terms of Cutting Edge so new people don't really know where to go to learn about it and I was chatting with Paul ratzer who runs the marketing AI Institute this is the exact conversation we're having here Dan it was there is no one repository of information to find so how does one learn about this all these B2B marketers that know AI is something and I should be in it but I don't really know how where do I learn

the answer is you got to Scrabble it's everything from YouTube to going to conferences to these types of podcasts it's inefficient at the moment by the time it becomes efficient and that's going to be like I said a few years it'll be clear okay here's the Playbook to your point and social media did the exact same thing garyvee was a maniac when he was recording himself daily walking through the streets of New York City he was an idiot next thing you know everybody's got cameras following them so it'll play out over time that this is been best practice in the B2B World clearly workflow is part of how where I should be integrated content Creations already started it's not really there yet with Predictive Analytics or personalization but that's on the horizon so

kind of know what I have a general sense of what I should be doing with AI I just don't I haven't seen the use case or the person teaching it will happen next in the next year will be all the books that don't exist yet and all of these YouTube guys and girls and people at some of them will be quality like yourself and some of them are going to be garbage with just here get rich quick thing so we got to sift through all that over the next year or two yeah I'm the best best ideas will rise right I mean some people come up with a hypothesis and that's what they all are all hypothesis people will test them and the best ones will that's once a win really you know what's funny is small find out like hey I tried I tried marks thing I tried dance thing and Mark's Work and Dan didn't so they're recommending it

our mouths will spread some of the best ones in the B2B marketing World they don't love Innovation and I know this is any big business they say everyone says they do I work the Wall Street Innovative they hate cryptocurrency so like big companies don't like change that's not new we're getting to see Innovation play out in real time with AI now and the small little operators are leading the way and that's usually how it goes and so to say like where do how do these companies apply where they learn the answer is it's going to be some nobody who's going to put up the Playbook as you you know describe and everyone's like yeah that works and then it'll be copied yeah I mean same thing we saw social media I mean before I Pat Flynn was smart

income the FBI Community he was a nobody blogger blogging about and shoot his first case study was about becoming like some kind of like lead Eco Green something like certified contractor developer something I'm like that was his first thing and that was his case study and then he started smart passive income and started talking about how to blog and remember being in marketing back thing and thinking like well that's cool for blogging but how do I make a marketing campaign out of that I remember thinking that like 23 trying to figure put the pieces together I'm like yeah but how do I get how do I sell the thing that I'm responsible for herself this thing he used to refer to himself as the crash test dummy I'll make the mistakes

so you don't have to and you can learn from me and there was a lot of Casey neistat was doing that even Gary so like that that's the way it's going to go with the AI world right now people are going to apply things build things this whole building itself an avatar with hey Jan and throw 11 laps voice on it that whole concept is cool but it hasn't yet been applied in a legitimate business and so I don't get the same thing with blockchain like all these nft projects we're not really effective creation but there is something there so my point is AI we're not there yet but there's going to be you really want to network the way to learn is to network find like what we're doing here find the people you think have an interesting perspective you run across them and social and you just

a person who influences people's thinking on any Niche topic if you just read 30 books on the topic or however many are published on a very Niche topic like ABM only had 15 books when I went all into that topic and tried to learn everything I can read all the books go and interview 30 people about it who are have written those books or who are experts in the field and then go and write 30 articles or do 30 solo podcast or 30 YouTube videos I'm like by the time you've gone through that process and you've read read everything published today on the topic

install the experts to expand on it and build relationships with them so now you're kind of in the community and get I don't know if you have a guest on your podcast there's like this weird endorsement effect you get from having them on your show of course and then you actually go and teach it even just the basics you're probably ahead of like 99.9% of people in that topic because nobody does it so here's the only thing like the caveat on that when I agree with you 100% but when you teach it you can't teach it as the authority you teach it as the learner yeah because that is the caveat and that's why I'm approaching AI like I am now because very few people are experts are they are out there I've positioned myself as a student and it's way easier to create content that way because you don't have to pretend like you know it

it seems to be working how do you guys think about it right and the thing is that when multiple people are doing the same thing in different fashion eventually best practice emerges but for right now it's just a matter of what you may or may not be right as long as you know that people and you you're approaching it the right way a lot of folks in the space on forty or not and that's more of the Instagram tiktok crowd then it is say the LinkedIn crowd yeah one of the things I've noticed about those early Pioneers in the digital marketing space the Gary vs the path flens even the Casey

not with YouTube is one of the characteristics I've noticed about all those people as they did an exam volume of content like they put out a lot of stuff right as much as people hate the volume versus quantity quantity versus quality game of course quality really matters but I'm like when it comes to like figuring out a new thing you really just have to experiment and try out a lot of stuff part of me is like man I need to put I need to try out some more custom GTS to learn or I actually now I'm starting to think I'm like the thing I'm seeing a lot of AI marketers do is really work through zappier to build out their automations and process right now because because because a lot of the SAS companies are still trying to catch up and

right now I don't think you can use HubSpot to tap into open API through their workflows so some of the smaller companies have but hasn't done it you can just use it in their chatbot or whatever I'm like that's old news how do we build automation is kind of the way right now so there's an emerging business type of business model called the AI automation's agency you probably familiar with this but if you're not it's it's basically a small business consultancy to help AI up your whatever you're doing Oracle is doing this and IBM are doing this and I think Google at the big end poorly but they've got basically a consultative package that they give to software companies in the SAS world and they'll go in there and assess where should we be installing AI workflows that that

space in general right now it's going to be b2c lead and it's going to be revolutionary because you're going to be able to compete with large companies as a small outfit however eventually that's going to get replaced so I'm going to give it a 4 to 5 year window where they you won't need to be paying a little guy when you can download the service from you know Google G Suite so my my point is I agree with you 100% that we're in the middle of evolution and it's oftentimes hard to see around corners but the best thing to do is just take stats to your point about the the Content Volume with AI it becomes too easy to make massive amounts of volume right we're already going to see this that's about Content Volume

hang out more social media but I'm talking about volume as in trying more stuff with AI I agree making more custom gpt's testing out stuff putting out ideas and experimenting I think that's the key to learning AI faster is being the one who experiments and chests and fails and finds what works and what doesn't the reason you're going to be successful with this Dan and most people won't is is the lack of ego the problem with big businesses especially in the B2B world is they don't want to be wrong they don't want to look foolish in front of their clients and I can respect that but the reality is that's how you figure it out when Gary vaynerchuk is putting out videos of you know and he's half dressed and he's hasn't shaved and he's running a t-shirt you gotta be comfortable to get the volume of out of the authenticity on social came out because

social media content is going to be ai-driven and there's going to be a decline in authenticity right especially if I can tell the machine when Chachi BT can make my personality you know make me sound like Jordan Peterson well and then I can say I myself up to look like it's me with these amazing words you won't really know who I am at that point which by the way speaks to the value of IRL we're going to get to we're going to go right back to Coffee meetings and beers over bar tops because before you hire someone or do a business deal and you've done you've dealt with them remotely for a while you're going to want to meet them and then the

makes me think of this one relationship I have through Linkedin that refuses to do video and so I don't know who really is and I have a hesitancy with this one person because I don't know they've refused to like do video calls for some reason because I don't know if they're afraid of their face they have a photo on their profile but I'm like there's going to be more and more of that is people are able to fake even video soon right so I can see where you're going with that cuz I'm like I've tasted that and I'm hesitant this is the zoom call the person doesn't put the camera on right and you're like dude like this is a human element we're missing here so AI is going to bring that back around again you're going to see soft skills

I want to know who Dan Sanchez actually is I'm going to go meet this guy for dinner we got to build trust that makes a big difference is funny enough all the tech brings it right back to the human element so I'm taking down is declining authenticity making if you can actually pull off authenticity makes it more valuable because trust is going to tank and we're going to see trust tank because of all of course ai's get to bring all the misinformation out so people's trust is going to go down and it's going to be crazy I think that leadership

become bigger because of that there will be so much misinformation people won't be able to fact-check at all so they will do the shortcut that they've always done and follow the leader that gives them the the breakdown so thought leadership only grows because there's too much stuff on different topics I agree with you thought leadership though requires that you have original thoughts on the thing of course and a lot of folks don't a lot of these leadership management is different from Innovation yep now that I mean a lot of them will be real thought leaders they were probably a bunch of fake thought leaders that do people into thinking they're thought leaders too that'll be a problem right but people people will for certain

individuals or trusted voices to deal with the sheer amount of volume of content we think we have a lot now it's like dang in a few years it's just going to be inside I don't want a second that's not a problem that's all that was the case with traditional media back in the day back to history here there's no issue with there was an endless number of commercials on in old television how many channels are on cable 999 too much content is not the problem the problem is the authenticity piece you're going to have a micro content world of Cults almost The Cult of Dan Sanchez I love this guy I'm going to follow him whatever he puts out at podcast YouTube it doesn't matter he's my guy Gary has done this Alex from Ozzy has that going on right now once

the person and so it becomes a personality LED media front end and the AI can enhance all that but the AI is not the sale it's the it's the bolstering effect and that's not just about distribution your people want to find out their information from a specific Source the reason news is biased left and right you know Democrat Republican it doesn't matter I want to hear my opinion from about the news it's the same thing with business so when I learned about my AI or I want I want to hear where I think the future is going I want Seth go to be the guy that tell me that or you know I want to hear it from whomever I believe has their finger on that pulse

I think that's going to be a thing how do you think smart marketers are positioning their companies now to leverage AI but still lean into authenticity so we talking as I think of small innovators like yourself and myself if you're talking to be to be I really don't think their positioning for Innovation I think that the large B2B companies are positioning for cost reduction in recessionary time is not the same so if I can replace my Google laid off 12,000 people how many of that was because of AI probably not yet directly but if I could lay off my department take the eight people down to two I'm going to that's not good or bad it just is but that's how companies think that is not how a guy like you or I who are building Brands and

grow a business think about it they certainly talk about it internally they're like we need thought leadership why can't we position our CEOs or some other subject matter expert or some whatever be sweet person you've been in companies I tell you a story during 2008 I was working at Lehman Brothers ironically I was there when they went under and I come to work just last week of the place was in business and there's some guy I've never seen before shouting and screaming from the floor like after this play you know we're going to recover we're going to come back strong and I'm like who is this guy like that stick full he's the CEO oh my god I've never seen this guy before my left but if you years like we're done from over like you could smell that it wasn't true but this they wanted it to be

big companies talk a good game but I found a lead firm like let's say you know SpaceX or even back in the day Amazon way back in the day Bill Gates and Steve Jobs those types of firms are innovating because there's a person that built it is running it when you get to like a Walt Disney or you know Paramount Pictures there's the founders not there Marvel now has this problem so all of a sudden the movies will start to go off the rails because the vision is gone so my point is AI right now enable a lot of people and if you're a Founder trying to do the right thing build real marketing Innovation you're going to be able to but if you're just looking to save money and use these tools to how do we increase next quarter

that's what most of the companies out there will do the founder brand is huge I mean you're seeing seeing a big with Mr Beast right now who's breaking away and we'll cross them be be the number one YouTuber in a few months here I'm walking through the supermarket last week I see festivals chocolate chip cookies mrbeast way overpriced double the price of whatever a box of cookies should be oh my God I'm going to Beast like I want Jimmy to get this money so I bought it my point is like I'm I wouldn't have just it wasn't the cookies it was the personality yep that's where we're going so come back to the big companies and how they're going to handle this I've been thinking a lot about that some like you know AI is going to take a lot of jobs but not in the same way it's not like companies at least this is my prediction it's not like companies are going to do an audit of like

what can AI do that we don't need people for I think what will happen is big companies will do a big companies do they will lay off a bunch of people for other reasons to post bolster their stock price to get better margins oh they over hired and now they need to trim back all they're doing a rework you know the lay off a bunch of people and I think just out of necessity they'll still have big goals for the people that are remaining and the only way to achieve it the leader the managers will do the math and be like well we just laid off half this this department if we're going to be held accountable to the same targets we need to figure out how to do that oh look this a isolation can help us get there and if they can actually train their team well in Ai and that that person can perform like a team of

20 oz on the hiring back becomes much slower yes so there's a cottage business right there in the training of these big companies in the AI to your point number one number two I'm not a believer that there's a wholesale wipe out of jobs because of AI That's not that Doom and Gloom is not true what will happen instead is the transition of work type meaning I use descript I think they're great I know you don't really love them so much but like in terms of b-roll is lacking in description right now it's just not great so instead of taking all these programmers and developers that are normally going to be doing whatever they're doing to build up the the company's productivity they're going to have to integrate better be roll into what they can shift people so all of a sudden I want to get my

hi into my tool like I know what where I can help my company but I don't have that integration capability so we need to build the apis we need to have these people on board that can help create this new division Google's going through this right now Google is off 12,000 people with record profits which never happens and publicly traded companies only fire when they're having tough times not that great times that tells me they're actually shifting jobs and that's what's going to happen with AI not going to lose jobs they're just going to transition to well we need to AI up the thing we've got and we need to get the people to do that so when you can't get a job as a traditional computer programmer because it's just not can do the coating so you're going to then transition to okay well I'm the integration guy for the

turn on boarding for the API front end like that that's all that will happen the money is over here now great that's why people going to Investment Banking in the first place anything about that too like marketing is one of those departments specifically that has a never-ending black hole of time talent and treasure you know budget like you can always put more into it so I'm like well if companies like a team of two might be able to do what team of 20 years to do properly equipped with AI but they'll still want to grow more and again it's a black hole so you could always do more so you probably might hire that team back and now you just have a team of the product the productivity of what you is now 200 marketers because you and now it only costs

play the salary rates of 15 or 20 Margaritas right so you just expand and the quality of the content becomes better and hopefully hopefully the like the contents actually good not just flashing because it's got AI video driven it driving it now with regards to the market or the future of the day and I think there's a skill set change happening I think that the marketer of the future a has to have a lot more technology not be a technologist but be familiar with how these tools can be integrated they have to be strategic thinker of workflow building right I need I'm not I can't rely on my boss to say this is the best way to do it which is way it used to be top down it has to be I myself use these tools I dabble with them in the evening I know that we should probably be doing this and its bottom up but more importantly

is an element of sales and marketing that are mingling now it used to be very distinct silos between selling and marketing the marketing folks didn't speak to the customer the sales people will yell at the marketing folks cuz the sales training materials weren't write etcetera you now are getting this media front end that you need to have a brand out there whether you're an individual or a company so the storytelling element becomes sales talks to the customers they can share insights the marketing folks know storytelling so those two skill sets are starting to come together and the folks who can Master both with the technological band they're going to win like that's why I would hire people who are you saying people who are good at sales and marketing

yeah yeah so this is good so you have to be good at those two things I think the marketers the ones that don't change and do the technology thing are probably going to are going to jump over their their their their their their their marketing leaders ahead of them I mean that's what I did with digital I learned all the digital stuff I learned all the tech and then all sudden I got promoted to director really fast because I knew how to run a digital marketing campaign before most did great I think that thing will happen again for those you know how to leverage AI I don't know I'm trying to think of like how you like like you know any sales is useful and I've been in some sales role I Won't Say I'm a great sales rep I'm not

just like I don't know I guess there's and I mean I'm reaching out for people on podcast so just some degree on pitching it's an easy pitch when you're selling to come on to podcast for free right but there's something to about learning how to drive conversations and yes I don't know only right information which I would argue is a sales element to that

marketing is well marketing and storytelling really being able to frame up and position that's not so much sales that's marketing and both disciplines can learn from each other but there's a coming together right now in my opinion I could be wrong I see what you're saying you're talking about that EQ stuff you were talking about a minute ago yeah I'll tell you a quick story when I was working on Wall Street and I was selling high-tech you know AI trading software to hedge funds no one knows these guys are Finance guys they're not Tech they don't understand what it does I'm writing an article once a week on the weekends on my own for LinkedIn to just post about and I'm using very simple comparisons of how this thing protects your orders in the marketplace and it's all Star Wars based analogies Ray shielding Tie fighters I'm a nerd so

off the back of that I become the top selling sales guy and I'm not I'm nothing special I didn't know what content marketing was but the reality was the principles of marketing applied in sales in a B2B world and it was gangbusters that's B2B still isn't leveraging that neither marketing nor sales is fully there should be a circulating system of customer Cutting Edge stories cycle back into marketing becomes content that the sales team then uses and this little people come they're actually hungry I see no firm doing that right now yeah very few very few are it's it's insane like I was just working at a tech company and it was backwards I'm like instead of driving to man with podcasts they were pushing people

the writing's on the wall and everybody knows at least it feels like everybody knows what to do on LinkedIn at least the people who post on LinkedIn all post generally about the same stuff leave you build trust people coming down and they'll want to buy I mean Chris Walker's been banging the drum on for years now alright so I'll tell you why the Playbook is broken and then I'll connect to AI The Playbook is broken because the buyer has changed they don't need a salesperson for information anymore the internet social media connectivity

did every selling all that all happens today is social selling whether you know it or not and that's not what these B2B companies are doing they're not actually trying to build friendships they're trying to sell stuff big difference so Chris Walker's right the way they're measuring it is all incorrect because you can't really measure relationship right if I trust Dan and Dan's got a new product I'm going to buy Dan Sanchez's product I just I like the guy on the other flip side of that AI it makes you more efficient it allows you to scale yourself yes how can you do that to build relationship how does that play into your relationship building capabilities as a company that in my mind is the magic question people should be looking at these tools not as

let me see plays in workflow building and I can just do more with less yes that's true but customers don't care at the end of the day the customer either loves you enough to reach out of their wallet or they don't or they're not sure it's what you said about the guy that won't get on Zoom calls or video or whatever like you need to have that kind of activity to have Commerce how does AI play into your strategy to build those relationships at the end of the day this going back to history again it's relationship only period I'm not buying from you because you have an AI whiz thing in the background I don't care I'm buying from you because I love you and by the way you have ai in their great I mean they're probably is a place for like the product is so good

it just seems obvious that it's going to help I think personality can drive a lot of it it's not the only way to win its it's a major way to when it's becoming an increasingly important way to win or probably the most effective way to win will say that the that like a strong value proposition because the product is so good is becoming less it works less and less because people are able to replicate what you have so fast like a product Advantage only is an advantage for 3456 months at most right that's right now and I based on what I've seen of it it's kind of rough but it won't be long before Google has their own co-pilot and it'll be comparable to Microsoft

when will be a competitor and then Apple will finally get in the game and there's will be interesting you know yeah there's just product like growth is hard because it's hard to stay on on top versus personality and Trust well that carries longer it's also way harder to build when open AI comes out with jet GPT and it's so light years ahead of everything else out there I don't need to know Sam Alvin there's no relationship needed that product is so astounding I'm going to use it when when Zuckerberg rolled out Facebook it was amazing to be able to connect with your friends and family people use it what happens over time though is all the features get copied everything becomes competitors arise Gemini Etc then it is was Zuckerberg is manipulating and he's not really

what just happened there's this element of okay the product is the product no question that thing works amazing but there's another factor is all I'm saying and as time goes by that factor grows you can't just when Steve Jobs rolls out the iPhone and is so unbelievable yeah we're all gonna buy one but over time it's I really like Steve Jobs I know that that company stands for privacy and I know that the company is protecting me whether it's true or not public perception matters

man the pr game it's always about the perceptions there are some uncertainties like we don't know I mean we know what's happening fast but we never know exactly what nobody predicted that sore like what was it Sora was coming out last night and it hit everybody we're all kind of expecting like it'll probably be mid-level good next year 2025 and now it's like oh no hello it's this year that it looks mid-level good it sends to be accelerating so we're not exactly sure how fast it will accelerate or what we will be doing a year or two from now we just know it's going fast and that's so there's uncertainty there but

certainly a lot more that we can know if we just dig into what's happened before if we just dig into how these these macro changes of played out before so it's been fun talking about what what we can expect some of the things I've noted from this conversation is the small players are going to lead the way there's going to be a lot of innovation a lot of it will be will lead to things that don't work but some some will lead to some that do work people are going to gravitate towards people and trusted voices as the amount of information Rises trust becomes more of a less becomes more and more important it's always been important but it only becomes more important when you can't believe what's on the

all the other things that got to keep going running so that we can actually take the time for the important things right that are in person that are doing the things that only people can do to benefit your audience and one of the things that take away is I would want to share in an AI World on if you're doing any kind of social media it becomes more and more important to be doing live any type of webinars live any type of Q&A

five when people can see the real you it becomes more and more important when I know that it is a push button Mark Angeles that can pop up on screen anytime and I don't need to actually be there versus the actual back and forth AI is Advanced but it's not there yet where you can have a real time back and forth with it and think it's live so my point is that authenticity of personality is the sale for your folks that want to build brands that I want to grow if you have something to sell who you are matters that's been a fascinating conversation and I'm like the more I think I can create or I'm trying to figure out how to phrase this but the more clarity that can be made I think it's the goal one of the goals of this podcast because there is uncertainty

more clarity that there can be the more people can find their way forward and find their way into this new new thing that's going to happen because rolls are going to switch some jobs will be lost new jobs will be created we're not exactly sure what the titles of those new jobs will be but it's going to happen so if we can figure it out together create more clarity create some write new maps for people to follow I think this is the goal I think that three things I would say for action steps for people number one learn about how AI is being applied inside your industry be a voice in there and you can be wrong but have an opinion because you want to be in the conversation right now it's early days number two make sure that you are putting yourself out there and I'm again I think that live engagement not you can check GPT the auto engagement already

is it going to be important so figure out how to get that into whatever you're doing and number three networking there's nowhere to learn other than from people who are doing the same thing you're doing and making the same mistakes in their own way so the conference has come back into importance the DMS and this type of thing being able to collab on podcasts like help people and you will learn from their mistakes versus just your own who has a conference on AI and marketing I'm a big fan of the marketing AI Institute Paul ratzer and team they do a good job they run out of Cleveland and they do a couple of year actually that's generally geared towards large b2bs which is fine

let's see who's a friend has done a good job with the Tilt and the Creator economy Expo more geared towards creators and small solar panels that Justin Wells she said her involved and the text side I think Greg Eisenberg is a great influencer on LinkedIn I listen to the all-in podcast those guys are great there's you're going to have to vary between podcast YouTubers and conferences but don't just be a passive absorber of information go out and talk to these people try to help them quick backstory for those who don't know Dan I when you and I are engaging on social I hit you up with her something might help your business maybe maybe not you would you were talking about some interesting little things that you were dabbling in and I was like

networking and helping people in a time of learning is the number one thing you can do for yourself absolutely that's why I'm trying to talk to anybody and everybody is doing something cool with AI in marketing through this show and it's been fantastic I've learned I mean this is where the main learnings are because again there are no books on this topic it's a brand new topic so no one's no one's written the playbook for it let ya like we talked about in the beginning of the episode it's being written now but people are still on the experimentation mode so the best way to learn find out who's doing the experimenting you know this damn what people come to you and say where do you learn about your AI your answer is always like I got Scrabble it up from wherever I can like there's no one place yeah there's a bunch of little places I'm starting to think that needs to be a future episode of where I'm learning

YouTubers that have stood out to me in a few newsletters that I'm getting news from a couple different sources I know they're everybody has their own sources but I have my own so future podcast coming right probably a short one but thank you so much for joining me today where can people go to connect with you learn more about what you're doing in marketing and an AI sure the first of all it's an honor to be here thank you for having me best place to learn about me LinkedIn Mark Angelo's I also run a company called and Victor's Communication in victor.com we do file content marketing for financial and Technology folks that's it thanks for having me dance